The Grand Challengers Podcast Episode #42

“Doing the right things the right way” – how to holistically plan for sufficiency and renewable energy

Guest: Mashael Yazdanie

April 22nd, 2025

Episode Teaser

Introduction

“…If we’re doing the wrong things the right way, that doesn’t help us too much, and if we’re doing the right things the wrong way, then we’re also missing something!…”

Mashael Yazdanie is a Group Leader, Scientist and Lecturer at the Urban Energy Systems Lab at the Swiss Federal Institute of Materials Science & Technology (Empa). Having gained invaluable experience in the engineering and planning aspects of practically every form of renewable energy, Mashael has made it her mission to understand, more holistically, how we can design energy systems for better resilience, sustainability and sufficiency. Her work has spanned both the Global North and South and has not shied away from embracing the complexities of decision-making under climate and societal uncertainties.

On today’s show, Mashael and I trace her journey in amassing her experience in the renewables sector, from biogas in Pakistan to solar, wind and tidal energy across Europe, Canada and Ghana. We discuss the intricate balance that future planning has to strike between the fine lines of planetary boundaries, wellbeing and equity, the difference between efficiency and sufficiency thinking and how to minimize regret in future planning.

Biography

Mashael Yazdanie is an engineer and researcher specializing in sustainable energy systems modeling and analysis. Her academic foundation was laid at the University of Waterloo, where she earned a Bachelor of Applied Science in Systems Design Engineering in 2007, achieving Dean’s Honors recognition. Her commitment to alternative energy development began with her bachelor’s thesis on improving biogas digester efficiency in rural Pakistan. This interest was further demonstrated through her initiative to introduce family-sized biogas plants in a rural village in Pakistan, where she managed the project from feasibility assessment to pilot plant construction. Mashael also gained international research experience as a Research Assistant at General Electric (GE) Global Research in Munich, developing a load and power prediction model for tidal turbines, followed by her master thesis to improve the efficiency of solar photovoltaic power plant operation. Another one of her master’s research projects focused on carbon capture using nanotubes at ETH Zurich, where she continued to also work as a Scientific Collaborator at ETH Zurich on sustainable mobility. Mashael obtained her doctorate from ETH Zurich in 2017; her thesis focused on the role of decentralized generation, storage and local energy resources in future communities.

Currently, Mashael holds the position of Group Leader at the Urban Energy Systems Lab at Empa – Swiss Federal Laboratories for Materials Science and Technology in Dübendorf, Switzerland, where she has been a researcher since October 2017. Leading the Macro-Energy Systems group, Mashael spearheads numerous research projects and has been the primary author for proposals covering diverse topics such as nature-based solutions, energy sufficiency, positive energy districts, and energy system resilience. She also lectures on energy systems modeling at ETH Zurich in “Building Automation and Controls” and is a Scientific Committee member of the World Sufficiency Lab. Mashael contributed to the development of the Python-based Energy Hub (E-hub) Tool, an instrument for energy systems modeling and optimization. She collaborated with the International Renewable Energy Agency (IRENA) to review energy planning models and applied them in China, and she spearheaded the transdisciplinary MEASURES project to improve energy models for climate resilience in the Global South. Her extensive expertise encompasses a wide array of energy applications, including solar, wind, biogas, electric mobility, and energy policy, reflected in her numerous publications on subjects like energy system resilience planning and urban energy system modeling.

Resources Related to the Episode

  • Solar Racecar Driving:
  • The papers Mashael discovered on Nature-based solutions:
    • Pan, H., Page, J., Shi, R., Cong, C., Cai, Z., Barthel, S., Thollander, P., Colding, J. and Kalantari, Z., 2023. Contribution of prioritized urban nature-based solutions allocation to carbon neutrality. Nature Climate Change, 13(8), pp.862-870. [Link]
    • Pan, H., Page, J., Cong, C., Barthel, S. and Kalantari, Z., 2021. How ecosystems services drive urban growth: Integrating nature-based solutions. Anthropocene, 35, p.100297. [Link]
  • Sufficiency Discussion:
    • The concept of planetary boundaries from the Stockholm Resilience Centre
    • One of the first publications on this concept: Rockström, J., Steffen, W., Noone, K., Persson, Å., Chapin, F.S., Lambin, E.F., Lenton, T.M., Scheffer, M., Folke, C., Schellnhuber, H.J. and Nykvist, B., 2009. A safe operating space for humanity. nature, 461(7263), pp.472-475. [Link]
    • Raworth, K. “Doughnut Economics – 7 Ways to think like a 21st Century Economist” 2018 [View on Amazon]
    • One of the pioneering thinkers on sufficiency: Princen, T. “The Logic of Sufficiency”, 2005 [View on Amazon]
    • Jungell-Michelsson, J. and Heikkurinen, P., 2022. Sufficiency: A systematic literature review. Ecological Economics, 195, p.107380. [Link]
  • Renewable Energy in Pakistan:
    • The 2005 Kashmir earthquake [Wikipedia], the epicentre being 19km north-east of Muzaffrabad
    • Mashael wrote a nice review on the topic: Yazdanie, M. 2010. Renewable energy in Pakistan: policy strengths, challenges & the path forward. ETH Zurich, 2, pp.112-119. [PDF]
  • Centralization vs. Decentralization:
    • Yazdanie, M., Densing, M. and Wokaun, A., 2016. The role of decentralized generation and storage technologies in future energy systems planning for a rural agglomeration in Switzerland. Energy Policy, 96, pp.432-445. [Link]
    • Yazdanie, M., Densing, M. and Wokaun, A., 2017. Cost optimal urban energy systems planning in the context of national energy policies: A case study for the city of Basel. Energy Policy, 110, pp.176-190. [Link]
    • Yazdanie, M., Densing, M. and Wokaun, A., 2018. The nationwide characterization and modeling of local energy systems: Quantifying the role of decentralized generation and energy resources in future communities. Energy Policy, 118, pp.516-533. [Link]
  • The IRENA Rise of Renewables in Cities Project:
    • The project report can be downloaded here
    • The review on urban energy systems planning and modelling approahes: Yazdanie, M. and Orehounig, K., 2021. Advancing urban energy system planning and modeling approaches: Gaps and solutions in perspective. Renewable and Sustainable Energy Reviews, 137, p.110607. [Link]
    • A related study on net-zero planning for cities in China: Chen, Y., Yazdanie, M., Zhou, C., Li, W., Xi, W., Zhu, C., Marquant, J., & Miorelli, F., 2022. Net-Zero Pathways for Cities: The Case Study of Wuzhong District, Suzhou, China. International Renewable Energy Agency (IRENA). [IRENA report link]
  • More on resilience of energy systems in modelling: Yazdanie, M., 2023. Resilient energy system analysis and planning using optimization models. Energy and Climate Change, 4, p.100097. [Link]
  • IPCC’s Shared Socioeconomic Pathways and RCP Scenarios
  • The MEASURES Project (Ghana) [Project Website]
    • Yazdanie, M., Frimpong, P.B., Dramani, J.B. and Orehounig, K., 2024. The impacts of the informal economy, climate migration, and rising temperatures on energy system planning. Energy Reports, 11, pp.165-178. [Link]
    • Yazdanie, M., Frimpong, P.B., Dramani, J.B. and Orehounig, K., 2024. Depreciating currency impacts on local-scale energy system planning: The case study of Accra, Ghana. Energy Strategy Reviews, 53, p.101362. [Link]
    • Siabi, E.K., Awafo, E.A., Kabo-bah, A.T., Derkyi, N.S.A., Akpoti, K., Mortey, E.M. and Yazdanie, M., 2023. Assessment of Shared Socioeconomic Pathway (SSP) climate scenarios and its impacts on the Greater Accra region. Urban Climate, 49, p.101432. [Link]
    • Siabi, E.K., Awafo, E.A., Kabobah, A.T., Derkyi, N.S.A., Akpoti, K., Anornu, G.K. and Yazdanie, M., 2024. Quantifying future climate extreme indices: implications for sustainable urban development in West Africa, with a focus on the greater Accra region. Discover Sustainability, 5(1), p.167. [Link]
    • Dramani, J. B., Ofori-Mensah, K. A., Otchere, N. O., Frimpong, P. B., Adu-Poku, A., Kemausuor, F., & Yazdanie, M., 2024. Estimating and forecasting suppressed electricity demand in Ghana under climate change, the informal economy and sector inefficiencies. Heliyon, e36001. [Link]
  • Mashael’s work on planning for resilience and regret in decision-making:
    • Yazdanie, M., Dramani, J.B. and Orehounig, K., 2024. Strengthening Energy System Resilience Planning Under Uncertainty Using Optimization Models and Regret. Available at SSRN 4837704. [Link]
    • The concept of ‘Regret in Decision-making’ [Wikipedia]
    • Yazdanie, M., 2023. Resilient energy system analysis and planning using optimization models. Energy and Climate Change, 4, p.100097. [Link]
      • The concept of ‘Regret in Decision-making’ [Wikipedia]
  • The World Sufficiency Lab that Mashael is a Scientific Committee Member of [Link]
  • “The illiterate of the twenty-first century will not be those who cannot read and write, but those who cannot learn, unlearn, and relearn.” – Alvin Toffler – A nice Forbes Article
  • The FREE online course on Mindfulness-based Stress Reduction (MBSR) that Mashael took
  • “8 Weeks to a better brain” – the article that Mashael mentioned on the Episode

Episode Chapters

(Chapters are embedded in the episode for quick access, click this to expand and view all chapters and time stamps)
  • 0:00 Intro
  • 1:59 Guest Intro and Solar Racing
  • 5:58 Nature and energy?
  • 9:50 Sufficiency, planetary boundaries and doughnut economics
  • 20:31 Mashael’s early renewables journey – Biogas Energy in Pakistan
  • 29:58 Mashael’s early renewables journey – Wind Energy
  • 33:37 Mashael’s early renewables journey – Tidal energy and the rest
  • 36:35 Is there a favourite renewable?
  • 38:01 Energy grid centralization vs. decentralization
  • 42:30 Planning-support modelling & optimization
  • 44:48 Understanding the breadth of modelling tools
  • 46:49 Energy in West Africa – The Measures Project
  • 54:28 The concept of ‘Regret’ in decision-making
  • 1:01:56 Coming full circle to sufficiency
  • 1:04:06 Learning, unlearning and relearning for the climate crisis
  • 1:10:06 Mashael’s future trajectory
  • 1:14:30 Q&A Start
  • 1:14:50 What does “innovation” mean to you?
  • 1:16:00 Time management
  • 1:20:34 Favourite childhood memory
  • 1:21:26 Biggest challenge to date
  • 1:23:45 Advice for young researchers
  • 1:27:57 What would you most like to be rememnbered for?
  • 1:30:16 Where can people find you?
  • 1:30:58 Final message
  • 1:33:06 Outro

Connect with Mashael Yazdanie

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